Of course, for as much as they achieved with those films, it’s their 1975 cult classic “Grey Gardens” that many cinephiles remember most fondly. Though it stands among their greatest works, the Maysles’ take on a middle-aged woman and her elderly mother (who came from the same bloodline as Jacqueline Onassis) sharing a run-down mansion with fleas and raccoons is so unusual that it gives you a new appreciation of the old adage that truth is stranger than fiction. It’s only right, then, that it’d get into this year’s “Stranger than Fiction” series at IFC Center, along with lots of other oddball documentaries.
Albert, now 84, will be in attendance during a screening this Wednesday for a discussion about “Grey Gardens.” (His younger brother, David, died in 1987 after a stroke.) If you’re clueless on what to ask him, see if this gives you any ideas.
AllMediaNY: Between Larry David’s “Curb Your Enthusiasm” and Christopher Guest’s comedies, mockumentaries have started to become more common. Since “Grey Gardens” is something of a comedy, does the mockumentary subgenre owe a debt to it?
Albert Maysles: I find it kind of offensive to mention even the word “mockumentary” [in connection] to “Grey Gardens,” because it’s not in any way a mocking of these two women. It’s an attempt to be an authentic, sympathetic understanding of love for these two women and their relationship. There wasn’t anything in our purpose to do them an injustice.
AllMediaNY: A couple of years ago, you put together “The Beales of Grey Gardens,” a sequel made up of outtakes from the original. Seeing as all that footage stayed out of the public eye for so many years, what inspired you to turn them into a movie all of a sudden?
AM: This is something we’ve been doing with several of our films. We made a half-hour film of Muhammad Ali preparing to fight... Recently, 30 years later, we took that footage, expanded it into an hour. There’s a film that we made of Orson Welles. At this moment it’s only 13 minutes long, but we hope to make it at least half an hour, maybe even an hour. With “Gimme Shelter,” we just came out with another film of that film called “Get Yer Ya-Yas Out!” We went back to our footage that was shot by us at Madison Square Garden, found enough extra material there to make a whole extra film.
AllMediaNY: “Grey Gardens” was supposed to be about Jacqueline Onasis and Lee Radziwell.
AM: Originally, Lee asked us to make a film of her childhood in the Hamptons, and we began making that film. One day, Lee happened to get a call from young Edie Beale asking Lee to help out because the Board of Health was after Edie and her mother, so we accompanied her to Grey Gardens and met the two women, and decided several months later to just on and make a whole film of our own.
AllMediaNY: Did you get any feedback from them once you changed the focus of the movie?
AM: I’d heard from other people that Lee likes the film very, very much. Just by chance, when we finished the film and we were showing it at the Paris Theatre, my brother happened to meet up with Jackie at some airport and asked her if she was going to see the film, and she said, “I might sneak in.” That was kind of an interesting kind of answer; I don’t know if she ever saw it.
AllMediaNY: In 2006, The New Yorker profiled Jerry Torre, the handyman who made the Beales’ mansion one of his haunts. It reported that you’d reunited that year, but there isn’t any mention of how the meeting went. How did you get along after filming him so long ago?
AM: Just as the two women loved the film very much, he liked it enormously. I suppose without even knowing him that well, by just representing him well in the film, we were already good friends. Every once in a while, I get a call from him and we get together. He had just made a film about himself at Grey Gardens, and I saw it the other day and it’s very good. I forget the title, but it’s a very good film.
AllMediaNY: There seems to have been a rapport between you and the Beales. Were you afraid of that camaraderie affecting the film’s objectivity?
AM: I think that when you love somebody, if it’s a genuine love, then it’s one that’s connected with understanding and fairness and truthfulness. I think they’re all of a kind—these words, I think, are all consistent with one another. It’s not the kind of objectivity where we have some cold rendition of what we’ve witnessed. It’s a loving understanding. Love doesn’t have to be prejudicial, so there’s no prejudice—totally authentic. You can call that objective; it’s also subjective in that it’s an artistic rendition, which is totally consistent with the truth. We have no problem about objectivity.
AllMediaNY: A review of “Grey Gardens” that the San Francisco Chronicle ran speculated that you might’ve exploited its subjects. Do you think it’s normal for viewers to feel that way?
AM: I think that there’s so much exploitation in the press with not enough affection given to the people that are being reported upon, that people expect that if it’s an odd couple, as these two women were, that by itself, anybody [being reported] on is going to be exploited, because they’re so strange to us more so-called normal people, but I don’t see any exploitation whatsoever [in this film]. It’s true—it’s rare that a film explores that deeply, but getting that [deep] doesn’t mean that we’re making these two women any more vulnerable or we’re exploiting them. So much of the public—and critics, too—have come to think that if you really get inside the heart of somebody, then you’re going to hurt them. Certainly that wasn’t true with “Grey Gardens.”... I’ve had problems with The New York Times: There’s a review that’s extremely negative, making it look as though it was some kind of exploitation of two women who were too crazy to be filmed, stuff like that. One of the sentences went like this: “Why are they showing all this flabby flesh?” In other words, if somebody—a woman—is more than 35 years of age, then you’re exploiting them. People of older age shouldn’t be represented because they’re going to be hurt, all this crazy stuff. When Edie read that article, she wrote a beautiful response to it, but they never published it because they said [she was] a schizophrenic.
AllMediaNY: There’s an entry on the Internet Movie Database for “Gimme Shelter” that says the editing makes the fatal stabbing look as if it happened at a different time than it did. If that’s true, what made you want to alter those events?
AM: It’s not true—we didn’t alter any events. I think it was my brother with a cameraman that actually was able to see and film the killing. I think if it was any other decent person, if he were able to stop the killing, he would have—that would’ve taken precedence over filming it—but he was in a truck some distance [away], and by the time the thing took place, he could never have gotten to it in time. As you see in the film, the people in the circle around these three—the young woman, Meredith Hunter and the Hells Angels [member]—they were pretty helpless to start with.
AllMediaNY: That same source says an unknown George Lucas was a cameraman for “Gimme Shelter,” although none of what he shot got into the movie.
AM: It did.
AllMediaNY: Oh?
AM: I had understood that he was having problems with the camera that was rented just the day before, so that some of his footage didn’t get recorded properly. That’s what I had understood, and maybe that’s where this idea that none of his footage got in [came from], but I do know that the very last scene in the film of the people arriving or departing—that’s his shot. At least that’s one of his contributions, and a very good one.
[Editor’s note: When the Chicago Tribune interviewed Maysles about Altamont 20 years later, the resulting piece quoted him as saying, “None of the stuff he shot turned out at all,” referring to Lucas. IMDb claims Maysles told the same story in 1999 at the University of California, Los Angeles.]
AllMediaNY: Was there anything you observed about him that’s relevant to our image of him now?
AM: I don’t know what the common image is of him—in fact, I didn’t really get to know him in that time. I was so busy filming wherever I was, and he was wherever he was. However, one thing that’s so interesting is that here, in this building, we have what we call the Maysles Institute, and we show documentaries exclusively and we teach kids how to make their own movies, and he has contributed a big sum of money to help to make that happen. When I think of him, I think of him as a skillful filmmaker, but also as a very decent guy.
AllMediaNY: People have been watching “Grey Gardens” on video for years. Would seeing it in a theater add to the experience?
AM: Like so many others, I think that the theater experience is a much stronger one. It’s a big screen and you’re with other people, and I think that helps to get that much further into the film.
AllMediaNY: Well, that’s everything.
AM: Anything else that comes to mind?
AllMediaNY: Is there anything more you’d like to say?
AM: One often wonders, “What do these two women think of the film?” When we showed [them] the film—and they were the first ones to see it when we finished it, we brought it to Grey Gardens with a projector—after the projection, Edie got up and in a very loud voice shouted, “The Maysles have created a classic.” She loved the film, and I understood from her, two years later, when she was with her mother during those last moments of her mother’s life, she turned to her mother and asked if there was something more she might want to say. Her mother said, “There’s nothing more to say—it’s all in the film.”